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Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?

Hi Folks,

Just polling community members as to whether anyone works on TOAs (either manual or using some sort of tool or WPO itself).  Would love to dialog on how you do things.

Regards,

Jay


Posted Wed, Oct 7 2009 9:23 PM by Jay Larock

Comments

JeanneJo wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Tue, Oct 20 2009 4:27 PM

Indeed I do - I use the tools in WordPerfect for TOA and TOC and have done so since learning how to create tables using WP 5.  I'm not sure how useful my input is, but I do use it and like it a lot.

Jeanne.

Lisa wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Fri, Oct 30 2009 6:43 PM

I have been creating TOA with WP since it was a DOS program!

BK23 wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Thu, Nov 12 2009 3:31 AM

I too use them with 5.1.  I haven't used them on Windows WP and can't comment on using them there.  I have had nothing but problems trying to use WP Windows. Most recently I got a copy of X3 and can't even install it.

The first secret to using them is to recognize that you have to have a standard for the identifier of each type of authority.  I have standard numbers for cases; constitutions, federal; constitutions, state; statutes, federal; statutes, state; rules, federal; rules, state; rules, local; and secondary sources.  I have never had the problem of insufficient numbers, but it could happen.

The second secret is that you will never remember  the numbers You  have to write a macro to select the number from a prompt of the various types.

The third secret is recognition that there is a lot to automating the process of preparing the TOA entries..  Among the issues are copying case names and statute numbers from text, remembering short form identifiers, entering short form codes, and finding inevitable duplicate codes.  Without automating this process, doing it would drive me nuts.

I think the WP TOA is better than an external program because it automatically comes out whenever you regenerate the headings and you don't have to go through an extra step to get it.

Veronica125 wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Fri, Nov 13 2009 7:20 PM

I used to teach legal secretaries how to prepare a ToA. The firm was using Full Authority. I taught them to use Full Authority to find out what to mark but to use WordPerfect's ToA feature to  mark the document. Sometimes Full Authority couldn't find any cases in a document that had dozens of cases--it was not reliable enough for us to depend on it.

Depending on their attorney's requirements, I would adjust the class: Sometimes their attorneys only used 3 headings in their briefs: cases, statutes, and "other." Other secretaries worked for attorneys who wanted the cites separated out as BK23 described in his/her post.

runjean wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Fri, Dec 11 2009 11:30 PM

I write long briefs and using TOA is too cumbersome and time consuming.  I have always used West's westcitelink until I just recently upgraded to wpx4.  Westcitelink is not compatible.  I am going to downgrade back to wp12.  Can you create a patch to make westcitelink compatible to wpx4?

petekohn wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Sat, Dec 19 2009 11:33 AM

Glad you asked.  Runjean is absolutely right.  Now that none of the third-party TOA auto-generation programs support WP (though I have a call into West to discuss the pricing of the software version of theirs, which apparently is compatible), it is a frustrating experience. Before, the programs would at least take a WP doc, though the output was in Word and required a lot of cleanup.  But now you have to convert the doc to Word altogether, which yields page cites that are totally wrong.  That's just not workable.

YOU NEED TO INLICENSE A TOA AUTO-GENERATION PROGRAM.  Or write one (how hard could that be?).  Or get West or Lexis or Levitt & James to make theirs compatible with WP.  Or explain to us why they won't do so (if it has anything to do with Microsoft, there might be a good case there).

The "mark as you go" thing is for the birds.  I won't use it and never will.

The lack of a workable TOA auto-generation program for WP is going to make it difficult for me to stick wtih WP.  I have secretly stuck with WP when my firm has switched to Word.  But this might be a deal-breaker.  

I am happy to discuss this with you further.  It's important, to us and to you.

Kenneth Hobson wrote re: Do any lawyers out there work on TOAs?
on Fri, Feb 19 2010 12:04 PM

This discussion at wpu might provide some in-cite or alternatives. www.wpuniverse.com/.../showthread.php

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