My laptop system is a Dell Precision M4300 and MSOFT XP w latest SP and bug fixes all current.
I am running X5 for about 2 years. My problem file has 5 separate files: 1 parent and 4 children, all linked.
The 4 children are data files with NETPVs, Durations, IRRs with results stuff taken from the same cash flow source stream sheet in the parent.
I built the 4 children in Sept 2012 and everything seemd OK except for an occasional load which may have been too much for the system to handle. My system had been relatively "save" error free - but I have expereienced numerous "crash on save" events - but things had got stable whne learned to load Windows Task Manager since the main file is about 5 mg. I watch the monitor and CPU before moving on. I am not running macros; I use lots of references to sheets and data. I have made minimal "development" changes (a new chart or 2 among about 50-60 spread throughout about 10 sheets) again with no apparent issues.
My last "save" was May 5, 2013. We loaded Bitdefender on or about May 24, 2013.
Recently, my system crashed on startup with "\$Mft" error which appears to be a file tracking system table.
Now, I cannot "Open", or "Open/Modify", and then "Save" or "Save As" any parent file which has the links supported by the 4 children.
I can "Save" big data files that have 5 mg with absolutely no problem. (No "Links").
I loaded SP 3 to see if it would "fix" the $Mft and we are planning to reinstall XP from scratch.
1) Are "linked" files a known problem?
2) Should I migrate back to QPro 11?
3) Should I have a single laptop system just to run these QPro files?
4) Is there ANY procedure or PROTOCOL for saving children first, then parent? (It did not seem to make a difference.)
5) Any help here?
I don't know how much you've read about that $Mft error, but here's a short article (from Seagate's website but applies to all hard drives):
Since these $Mft errors usually indicate corrupt files/partitions, it's possible that some of your QPW files have been corrupted, or that your HDD is not reading them properly when the parent is trying to load them. I would recommend backing them up and trying on a different computer. Also, try pre-existing backups of those files.
Also, the number of data charts that you have in your master document could eventually cause a problem. If the global number of chart objects (data points, labels, titles, etc) becomes too large, QP could crash when loading the file and/or modifying a chart. To see if your file is approaching this limit, do the following:
In reply to pascalc:
Thanks for input,
I was able to monitor QP "User Objects" which was resting at around 1,687 or so.
When I loaded a different cash flow from the child file containing tabs with each client cash flow, it went from 1,687 to 1,700.
I tried to "Save as" new and it crashed awile reporting 2,297 - definitely more, but not near your crash target.
BTW, when I started this morning I got the other "blue screen" telling me that MSFT was doing a memory dump, had to close, restart, and call my administrator.
I also read the Seagate reference on that $Mft file, but it's over my head.
My tech (out of town/former MSFT engineering teacher) told me he never even got that deep in MSFT engineering when he was teaching it.
In reply to Joe B:
To break down the article a bit, the most likely causes of this problem are a) power to the hard drive cutting out at the worst possible moment, messing up the master file table, or b) a failing hard drive. It is strongly recommended that you back up all your data, just in case. Afterwards, running "CHKDSK /R" on each partition from the command prompt to scan your drive(s) and repair errors.
You are correct, you shouldn't worry about QP climbing to 2,300 user objects, your spreadsheet still has plenty of room to grow.
It's difficult to say if the QP crash is caused by these $Mft issues, but since both issues appeared at the same time (unless I misread your original post) I'd say it's a safe bet. Corrupt files (documents, application files and/or system files) can wreak all sorts of havoc.
Don't know if this is relevant but...
I successfully saved the parent after removing some charts and 2 sheets from the parent file.
The save was "New".
I checked the "Links" and they looked OK - except that I had saved 2 child files as "New" as well.
I recall that I saw 6 "Links" when I checked the "Open Links" because I wanted to make sure I had the correct "child" references.
This surprised me.
So, with a good "New" parent save, I copied my good parent and 4 children tpo my file server.
Now, QPW crashes when I try to "Open" from my newwork even if I "Open" with links = "None".
I have suspected for some time that part of this ongoing problem exists due to "procedures" needed to "manage" parent/child routines when files are 'linked".
Problem is, NO DCOUMENTATION EXISTS.
IS THIS POSSIBLY THE SOURCE OF MY ONGOING PROBLEMS?
IS THERE ANY DOCUMENTATION ON REQUIREDC PROCEDURES?
OR IS THIS "something only your programmer would know"?
I see NO tag topics for "Linking files"
I am cludeless.
I don't suppose you could share the files -- they'd be used only for testing purposes. Notebook links became problematic when Quattro Pro had its maximum number of rows increased -- I thought we had addressed the majority of them though. Hope we can help!
files can be sent to firstname.lastname@example.org
In reply to HeatherB:
I will consider this.
However, consider this new info I just confirmed:
I now realize that 1 of my "child" files is ALSO linked to one of the other "childs" in addition to the "parent".
So, I have a parent, and 4 children, and 1 child links to a parent AND child.
I know this is getting weird, but if you could answer this?
It's not a known issue, but could be the problem. Can you detach the children?
When you say "detach", do you mean "Edit"/"Links"/"Delete"?
Or, do you mean "Open" then respond to "Links" = "None"?
If you area sking if I can "Open" without having links open too, then yes.
If you are asking if I can "Edit" and then "Delete" Links, I think that screws up all of the reference cells in the parent.
I would think that I would need to rebuild everything in the Parent/Child relationships.
Is this correct?
I did mean Delete the links between the children - but only as a test to see if this helped correct the problem. I'd suggest creating a copy of the entire linked set and then trying different things -- I'd hate for you to re-structure the spreadsheets and then have it not help.
I saved the parent with a new name after deleting 2 pages and some charts.
I then copied the parent and all 4 children files with new names to a new directory.
I then opened the file to find that the links needed to be updated.
I did so.
I then re-saved all the file successfully.
I then copied to a stick
went back to the directory and made updates to children and parent.
After numerous time, I turned off "View" "Locked Titles on each and every tab of 2 children.
I monitor the "Performance" using "Task Manager" and was then unable to save the parent successfully at any time under any scenario after 1:43 PM today.
That includes: opening with supporting = "None", "Refresh" and "Open".
So, once again I cannot save the parent at all.
I then noticed that "Task Manager" CPU skyrockets when I use the touch pad.
It goes from 1-2% to between 10 to 50%.
And I am doing NOTHING.
I tested this on my lapotop, my desktop, with Wordperfect, MS Word and Excel 2007.
ONLY QPW sets off the CPU. And this is while doing NOTHING !
I have failed about 10-15 times to Start, Restart, etc. with/ without supporting, nothing works again to save the parent.
I cannot even Opoen, then "Save again. Blows up each and every time with absolutely NO changes.
Troubleshooting at this point will be difficult without switching machines, as Pascal pointed out you may be faced with corrupt files/partitions due to the errors you are receiving.
We'd be happy to take a look at the set and see if there is a corruption in the files.
Begin ERROR audit & corrections; eliminated several dead sheets which had little apparent value based upon dates; began major review with embedding 11/24 instead of 0.458333 in all @NETPV functions where this might be used; timing adjusts mortality; also see that a number of sheets still use 0.50 in "delay"
Found 2 sheets with curious references: CohortGAM83Act and ProCFs
Separated "PlansCFs" from Protean; had to copy inputs from Protean to plansCFs; moved DecAIM and other mortality tables closer together; deleted all CF source pages from this audit file; major changes
Audited "PlansCFs", "ProTrax", "Plan Eff", "Plans DB", "Quotes IRRs" and substantially revised and cleaned up in New Tables approach; look to be able to create building blocks for tighter integration and app controls.
Created, audited, analyzed and referenced PlanCFs page to provide single reference to PlansCF Table; audited schematic and mapping; analyzed inputs; watched for shifts when adding or inserting new pages
Created, audited, analyzed and referenced "Inputs" as single page source for inputs to each scenario; begin looking to audit, create scenarios; possible development of macros? need to run "calls" so that scenarios can be audited; updated, changed, saved and revised for dynamic analysis, testing and presentation
Changed all reference cells on "Scenario" to correspond to Case ID on "Inputs" so that all parameters and settings pick up form the "Inputs" tab for the "Study"; this "acts" like a file, but is really a table that will become a database of inputs and scenario studies and this will grow as I begin to assign studies as a single additional "snapshot"
Crash problem #1 First comment regarding auditing crashes - App 4x was opened, chart on "SheetQCRV" page was removed; "PPAopt" rows 17 for PPA crv was updated; also updated column BU for values; all children CLOSED; "save" worked - 06/26/2013 @11:10 AM
Crash problem #2 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, "INDX Trax" was modified: "BT" was copied to "BU"; "BS" was copied to "BT" - goal was to update index data, reset charts reflect updates; attempted "Save" failed; crashed
Crash problem #3 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; "INDX Trax" was modified: "BT" was copied to "BU"; "BS" was copied to "BT" - goal was to update index data, reset charts reflect updates; performed "Edit" refresh on all children files; appeared to update rates; attempted "Save" failed; crashed
Crash problem #4 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; "INDX Trax" was modified: "BT" was copied to "BU"; "BS" for 3 cells with forward data were adjusted to refer to "BT"; performed "Edit" refresh on all children files; did not appear change numbers; attempted "Save" failed; crashed
Crash problem #5 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; "INDX Trax" was modified: "BT" was copied to "BU"; "BS" for 3 cells with forward data were adjusted to refer to "BT"; performed "Edit" refresh on just "Pro Eff App4" children file; did not appear change numbers; attempted "Save" failed; crashed
Crash problem #6 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; "INDX Trax" was modified: "BS" was copied to "BT" and "BU"; 3 cells with forward data were ignored; results appeared ALL zeros; DID NOT perform "Edit" refresh on just "Pro Eff App4" children file; just "Open" ProEff App4" it then populated; attempted "Save" failed; crashed
Crash problem #7 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; noticed that "INDX Trax" contains the entire file reference string in the cells referencing data:+[C:\JBs Stuff Laptop w H Files\QAS PRT Practice\Protean App 4\ProEff App4.qpw]AnnTraxEff:BT11
Open and Close functions now are almost instant response - this is a striking change and do NOT know what to attribute the change
Close function takes 1.min 25 sec now
Crash problem #8 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; NOW "INDX Trax" DID NOT contain the entire file reference string in the cells referencing data:+[C:\JBs Stuff Laptop w H Files\QAS PRT Practice\Protean App 4\ProEff App4.qP]AnnTraxEff:BT11 as noted in #7
Crash problem #9 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "None"; "INDX Trax" was modified: "BS" was copied to "BT" and "BU"; 3 cells with forward data were ignored; NOW results appeared NORMAL; DID NOT perform "Edit" refresh on just "Pro Eff App4" children file; file path now reads: +[ProEff App4]A:BT11
Crash problem #10 Crashes - App 4x was re-opened, supporting file = "Open"; "INDX Trax" was modified: all "]" were adjusted to be "]$" so that a lock on the tab in the child file was absolute; then, copied "BS" was copied to "BT" and "BU"; 3 cells with forward data were ignored; NOW results appeared NORMAL; DID NOT perform "Edit" refresh on just "Pro Eff App4" children file; file path now reads: +[ProEff App4]A:BT11; FILE SAVE to 4xx saved with NO HITCHES
Crash problem #11 repetitive Crashes - App 4xx was re-opened, supporting files = "Open"; updated "Sheet1PPACrv" from xls file source IRS; repeatedly tried to update associated columns, and references with and WITHOUT children file open and closed; finally read notes where "Edit", "Refresh Links" command can be processed; did so with newest Sheet1PPACrv; NO PROBLEM ON SAVE; NO DOCUMENTATION TO FOR PROCEDURE WHERE STEPS SHOULD BE FOLLOWED: Step 1: Update data in PARENT; Step 2 invoke "Edit", "Refresh Links"; Step 3 - "Open LInks"????
Crash problem #11a repetitive Crashes - App 4xx was re-opened, procedure from #11 was followed; supporting files NOT opened; all data and references points in PARENT were COMPLETED; THEN, "Edit", Refresh Links" was performed; ONCE AGAIN IT SAVED W/O PROBLEM; REVIEWED DOCUMENTATION: NO REFERENCE TO THIS AS A "MUST" PROCEDURE
I see that this did NOT work too well for you to read.
Where do I send the "QPW" file with these notes?
You can send it to email@example.com .
Just sent notes file.